How far would you go to make sure your dog is trained AND PROOFED?

How much are you willing to push the dog and how prepared are you to try and do things that have seemed ''offensive'' and ''wrong'' to you in the past when training other dogs or giving advice to others on how to train?How far are you willing to go and…

    How far would you go to make sure your dog is trained AND PROOFED?

    How much are you willing to push the dog and how prepared are you to try and do things that have seemed ''offensive'' and ''wrong'' to you in the past when training other dogs or giving advice to others on how to train?How far are you willing to go and…...
    Dogs Training Discussions : How far would you go to make sure your dog is trained AND PROOFED?...

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    • How far would you go to make sure your dog is trained AND PROOFED?

      How far would you go to make sure your dog is trained AND PROOFED? Dogs Training Discussions
      How much are you willing to push the dog and how prepared are you to try and do things that have seemed ''offensive'' and ''wrong'' to you in the past when training other dogs or giving advice to others on how to train?How far are you willing to go and are you willing to try EVERYTHING to get that dog trained and proofed?

      How far would you go to make sure your dog is trained AND PROOFED?

      How far would you go to make sure your dog is trained AND PROOFED? Dogs Training Discussions
    • If this is performance training you must train as hard headed as the dog itself.There are times when a dog needs a good smack in the axx to pay attention, I'll get thumbs down for that but only from people that haven't been there. It is not where I start training but it must be in the repertoire if all else fails.Think of a police dog that would bite through his tongue while apprehending a suspect, not release the suspect while his (the dogs) tongue is throbbing and bleeding. Do you think it learned that from clicker training?

    • Depends on what I'm training and what the dog is failing at. Life commands which for me are come (off leash), stay (off leash and out of sight), and walk on a loose leash. I train these to be reliable because if I don't, the dog can become dead due to disobedience. I am careful to lay a good foundation so that I don't need much retraining. Bad habits are harder to train out of the dog then their prevention. So I work hard on preventing bad habits. This is even true in shelter dogs that may come to me with a bunch of baggage. I just use a different word for the command and expect them to obey it. Ring tricks I'm not as picky on. However I still expect the dog to work.You also need to define EVERYTHING. I don't really do everything because I don't know everything. There are many methods out there that I don't know about. As far as the tools that I use, I have a large training box. I use very thing from a clicker to a remote collar because I feel that I have the knowledge and training to use them properly. One of the EVERYTHING that I have seen some hunters do is to pepper a dog that is running off. I won't do that EVERYTHING as I was taught to shoot to kill. Anything else I consider cruelty.As far as what others think, that is their problem. Any more I really do not give any face to face unsolicited advice. If they have a problem they can ask me and I'll try to help them. Yes I've offended a few people.

    • It all depends on what the dog's job is meant to be. I mean if we are just talking about a companion pet, then the dog doesn't really need to be pushed much further than your average basic commands and basic structure.I think it also depends on how you acquire the dog. If you buy some random dog from a newspaper ad when you have no idea what the dog's breeding is, it's kind of unfair to assume what the dog's capabilities are. But even then, you would just have to tread lightly to figure out what the dog's genetic disposition is and then figure out what the dog can do and how far it can go in training.Generally I say I would be prepared to push a dog to ITS individual limit - I never want any animal I work with (dog or horse) to shut down.There are things that I would have been opposed to using (e-collar, prong collar, etc.) that I'm fine with using now and will suggest to some people as well.No I'm not willing to try EVERYTHING simply because there are some methods I just don't believe work and are not suited to dogs as a species.

    • I draw the line at abuse, inflicting pain, or pushing a dog beyond what it can handle. If a dog needs that level of proofing or corrections, then it is not the right dog for the job or I am not a good enough trainer for said dog.

    • Well, I will answer this from MY perspective and based on dogs I select to live with me. I choose dogs that are hard enough and solid enough that they can handle anything I want out of them because these are the type of dogs I want to have around. Having said that, MY temperament is not suited to dogs to that shut down, dogs that you have to treat with kid gloves, dogs that need special care because their nerves are shot, etc.So, I will use any methods I know to train my dogs in whatever endeavor I want and I will use any tool I have to accomplish that goal, none discounted.I know from long term experience that dogs work better under the power of correction and that they will perform to turn off compulsion, I know that without compulsion, neither canine nor human education is possible, so, in order to train and proof a dog, compulsion is a must.I am willing to push as far as I need to in order to get my dog trained to the level and point that I am happy and satisfied because I wont accept anything less. Hope I helped.

    • Since all of my dogs are pets and not working canines, I push as far I as think the individual dog can take.With 8 dogs, I have many different genetically inclined temperaments. I DO have dogs that will *shut down*.I see no reason to take a companion dog so far to PROOF anything if the animal cannot take the compulsion emotionally.With that said, I have no problem with using tools on genetically SOUND dogs but am hesitant and gauge the animal's core temperament before I use ANY *tool* that will affect the dog to the point of hiding in a corner and shaking.I believe a bit of *fear* can be very useful but too much can do harm. My opinion. My way.

    • To proof the guide dogs I train, I put a blindfold on and work a 1 hour route in a busy city, both indoors and outside, crossing multiple streets, passing food, pigeons, dogs, sidewalk construction, you name it. They are primarily clicker trained (although we use some compulsion), receive variable food reward, and rarely need more than a verbal correction while working.

    • All my dogs are merely retired to pet status. My requirements of a pet dog are far different than what I would require of a working dog. But nonetheless here is what I require of ANY dog living in my house...Housebroke without failNO barking or a simple alarm bark when something is out of the ordinary outdoors. But must shut up when told. NO begging while we eat from the table or otherwise. Dogs learn quick to exit the room upon setting the table.NO Stealing food from childrens hands, the table, countertops etc.NO chasing cats or livestock.Stay out of rooms not allowed in.No snarling over a food bowlNo possessiveness over anything.Walk beside me on walks. Without pulling or lunging. Load into a vehicle and remain in their place. (Gemini in the cargo area of the suburban, Cavaliers on the floor boards) Remain in the farmyardNo chasing carsNo jumping on companyCommands my pets are taught or learn. This is my minimal list and what I expect out of ANY dog living in my home...Come, Kennel Up, Go Outside, GET, Down, Sit, Out These commands are PROOFED to the point of no return. I will do whatever it takes to proof these commands and the dog best listen to my children even, the first time, every time. Lie down and stay are not as important to me and neither do I proof these commands overly hard. Gemini, is by far trained and proofed a lot harder than my Cavs. She is big and strong. She also knows a huge array of commands that are not on my minimum list. But it is those commands above that I don't allow any room for error after the dog has learned them. In all honesty, I dont have an issue with dogs blowing commands. It is more of the dogs not following household rules..such as stealing the steakbone from a plate on the table while I rush off to give the kids a bath, or things of that nature. Yes I am willing to go as far as I need to to get a dog to abide by a command the first time every time. I really dont like to repeat myself and I see no reason to with a dog. I will use a slip collar, pinch collar, e collar or good ol fashioned kick in the @ss if it is warranted. Teaching phase is totally different to me than the dog who knows the command but chooses to blow you off phase. :p If the dog isn't smart enough to follow the command and is too weak to deal with the is simply not a dog for me.

    • I would train and proof it to suit MY specific needs.Everyone has different requirements for their dogs.Also, each dog varies as to what measures are required to train and proof it.So I would use whatever the MINIMUM necessary, was to achieve this.This may mean the use of a flat collar and very mild corrections for some dogs.Or at the other end of the spectrum - e-collars and prongs for others.(By everything I will obviously assume we are not talking about animal abuse etc).So I guess I would use everything/anything in a case by case situation.HOWEVER - What may be considered abuse for some dogs, is not for others.A correction on a prong or with an e-collar on a high setting WOULD be abuse for my friends mild mannered Whippet.But is NOT for my current Dobe.This is why I clearly stated that I would only use the minimum necessary.Also the levels for tasks/situations where posters, such as 'Greek' and 'Z', need to have their dogs trained and untimately proofed are vastly different to what I need from my 'pet' dogs.However, what I consider most important from my dogs, are their off lead recalls.This is because I exercise my dog everyday in public places, OFF lead.I have previously never had a problem, but am currently the owner of a dog with a very strong chase instinct. I live in an area that is rife with roo's, rabbits etc, and of course peoples cats. So for the first time in my life I had to 'inlist' the help of an e-collar with a 1.2km range (the furthest I needed realistically is a few hundred metres where I keep my horses).That may be considered extreme by some.But as far as I am concerned, it was the minimum necessary to maintain control off lead in specific situations, and in order for that specific dog to CONTINUE to have her freedom SAFELY.Many would have opted to keep her on lead instead.That is not a restriction I wanted for my high energy dog, who has a passion for speed :)She is well trained and wonderful to live with compared to the average pet, and her penchant for 'rabbit coursing' is the only issue I have ever had with her. However I do not yet consider her 'proofed', as I still feel the need to have her e-collar on her in off lead situations where cats or rabbits may suddenly appear. I am not sure I would ever trust her not to risk life and limb, chasing a cat across a busy road without it...But with that e-collar on... Well lets just say I have not needed anything other than the tone/beep in the last few years to remind her who is in charge.

    • You have 3 options. Don't proof your dog. In which case he may be taught to perform, but he isn't trained to. Such an animal isn't trained, at best he's well learned. Option 2, go as far as you need, and do whatever you have to do to get results whether that's talk in a high pitched girly voice while dancing and tossing out treats or dishing out tough love with a firm correction. Or option 3, get rid of, or put the dog down.I know people who're all no-kill shelter nation, treats, and kisses towards dogs...who'd rather see a dead dog than correct it because it's inhumane. It better for the dog to be dead, than to correct it. And they firmly believe this. I know people who's dog would perform better for motivation, who simply don't give motivation because they're a guy and don't want to be seen in public talking in a high pitched voice giving treats and playing tug with their dog. And then there are people who start on the liberal side, and slowly move their dog to a more conservative side. Hey, we're best friends, let's play. Hey, some of the positions we "play" are now commands. Hey, I love playing with you, but now you have to perform these commands before we can play. Hey, we can still play when you do good, but now I fully expect you to perform the commands I give you, or you will be corrected, but if you do perform well, you will still be rewarded, and you are still my best friend. Fool proof. You can't lose. I think too many people here, on Y!A specifically, advocate too few if they'll spoil a dog from work because they think "This is what professionals do"...well unless your dog is professional grade, doing professional work you really can't compare, not to mention, professionals still know the power of a timely reward, and do so, even when in the field as seen in the link below.

    • I want a happy dog that has a good quality of life. Sometimes the path to get their is the road less travelled. To refuse to learn new things is to refuse to grow as a person. I am not always open to change, I am human, and old habits die hard - but I decided long ago to be a part of this world - not a force working against it, so I strive to keep an open mind. Its one of the reasons I hang out here. I may not agree with a given approach - but reading about it registers it in my memory and over time, it ferments - and that distills my thinking (wine analogy - sorry).I`m saying even bad advice given here is a good marker for my learning of what NOT to do. I dont have to try some things, to instictively know they are wrong. Its not a question of could we - its should we.As far as how far: Well, I`ve been tested on that, and given the choice of giving up the dog - or taking it to the next level, I took it to the next level. I had to change or accept I had no business owning the dog. Said with the disclaimer: Excessive pain, abuse, and fear - these are things I will never tolerate. There is always another way.My standards in dog ownership are governed by my lifestyle. I live in a very litigious province with very defined rules on what is acceptable dog behaviour. I don`t take unnecessary risks. Its that simple. But I am mobile, and take my dogs everywhere, so I have spent considerable time conditioning them. And in fact, I am in the process of training now - for more versatility. It never ends.As far as others: I do not offer unsolicited advice to strangers. But I will let it be known in very direct terms if your dog is a nuisance or threat to me or mine. If that offends you - its your problem.If I saw you abusing your dog - depending on the circumstances, I would speak out (and tell you to stop) or if it was extreme, report it.