Another question about fear aggressive dogs?

Going with the idea that fear aggressive = unstable dog.People often differentiate between Human Aggression and Dog/Animal Aggression, however in a genetically skewed dog, aggression can encompass both and the dog is neither one nor the other. It may…

    Another question about fear aggressive dogs?

    Going with the idea that fear aggressive = unstable dog.People often differentiate between Human Aggression and Dog/Animal Aggression, however in a genetically skewed dog, aggression can encompass both and the dog is neither one nor the other. It may…...
    Dogs Training Discussions : Another question about fear aggressive dogs?...

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    • Another question about fear aggressive dogs?

      Another question about fear aggressive dogs? Dogs Training Discussions
      Going with the idea that fear aggressive = unstable dog.People often differentiate between Human Aggression and Dog/Animal Aggression, however in a genetically skewed dog, aggression can encompass both and the dog is neither one nor the other. It may present itself in a way that it reacts aggressive to other dogs for instance, but since the dog is fear aggressive, it is not guaranteed that the dog won't redirect this aggression to a human.So, it is really correct to call a fear aggressive dog either human or animal aggressive instead of just outright aggressive?

      Another question about fear aggressive dogs?

      Another question about fear aggressive dogs? Dogs Training Discussions
    • I think you're 100% right. Someone, very knowledgable in dogs, once explained this exact thing to me.It is incorrect to label a dog "human aggressive" or "animal aggressive".While a dog may be more predisposed to react to one over the other more often, the same gene that makes them react this way COULD make them redirect to whatever is closest to them. So an "animal aggressive" dog that otherwise has never even looked at a human weirdly in the past, may be triggered by an animal, can't get to it and then redirect that aggression on the closest human. Does that make sense?Kind of like redirection during a dog fight.You know how people always tell you not to get yourself in the middle of the dog fight? Same idea applies. Although your dog who may not be aggressive at all is in a fight with a dog, the moment you touch the dog to separate them, the dog could redirect on you.It is an intense quality that cannot always be predicted.

    • I do agree that no matter what dog, one should never trust it 100%, it's an animal after all. However I don't agree that because a fear agressive dog is necessarily agressive towards both animals and people. There are a lot of dogs out there that have had a bad experience with other dogs, mauled by bigger dogs, dog fights and these dogs are definitely fear agressive towards other dogs but has not reason to be it towards humans.

    • No, it IS correct to just call it fear aggressive. Once again, I think for the millionth time, no such thing as human or animal aggression gene exists and in a fear aggressive dog, there is no predicting what that dog will fear, it could be the dumpster today or a car tomorrow followed by a bag blowing in the wind next week...if the dog is aggressive and fearful, it will react in a manner most suitable to it, by biting anything near it if it prevents it from flight, or, by biting what scares it hoping to drive it away.Hope I helped.

    • Jen - Your questions always provoke deep thought and I often enjoy answering them and reading others responses- but in this regard, I believe you are making things more complicated than they are.No, its not correct to label a fear aggressive dog human or animal aggressive.Rule #1: Biting is a release for a dog and biting unloads tension.Dogs under stress of any kind build tension and they seek to release it through biting. As k-9's they all resort to their primal nature (ie agonistic behaviour)What separates a "vicious" dog from a "stable dog" is the dogs ability to manage stress and avoid the release. All dogs know how to bite and it takes very little effort to train that into some guarding breeds.Rule #2: A dog if given a choice will always target another dog to release tension (rather than a human).In my experience it matters little if the aggression is motivated by fear or not. It takes considerable training (read human conditioning) to deploy a dog that will ignore the other dog and choose to bite the human - this is simply the nature of k-9. What has been my experience is a dog that is given a choice will always target another dog first.....and then over time and under certain conditions IF PROVOKED (by whatever trigger )...move up the food chain to the human.If there is no dog - then the human becomes the target - and a fearful dog often avoids direct confrontation and is often characterized as biting from behind with their target fleeing.Summary: A fearful dog bites without provocation. It will unload on the target that provides the least amount of stress - this is another dog. If your dog was being targeted, an umbrella strategically placed in front of the dog may redirect the fearful dog to unload on it instead..*********************Redirected aggression is not indicative of a fearful dog. Any dog can unload on a human if the human sticks their hand in between two dogs fighting - that is not fear aggression. One of the reasons I don't let my Dobermans bark out in my car or fence fight is because it leads to other things (ie biting the seats, the seat belts, chewing the fence or bushes etc). Build enough frustration in a dog - and it will try to unload it - on a fence by chewing it, or a car seat, or a human hand, or another dog.*********************I agree all aggression regardless of motivation, does not result in a bite - I was assuming this question was focused on fear BITING. Yes a fearful dog can and does choose flight as does a confident dog - how or when or why...that is the psyche of each individual dog in a given situation. Dog aggressive dogs exist by selective breeding - and they CAN be fearful - but not necessarily and that is another distinction.

    • Based on my experience training my own fear aggressive dogs & volunteering with breed rescue fear aggression is a more complex than some people believe, & there is a scale to which a dog can be born fear aggressive depending on the degree of weakness in its genetic core temperament. A dog is born with a predisposition to behavioural strengths & weaknesses, & if it is mildly to moderately mentally unsound, in the hands of a competent owner it is easy to manage & can lead a fairly normal life, & at the other end there are severely mentally unsound dogs which have abnormally low thresholds to trigger stimulus & high reactivity, & in such cases there is only one responsible course of action.Mildly to moderately fearful dogs would typically choose flight over fight to release the stress on their temperament if it was an option, but would progress more quickly from a warning growl to an outright bite than a mentally sound dog would in the same situation. Aggression can also be a learned behaviour, with the dog ramping up aggression because its owner is a nitwit that fails to step in at the first sign of a behavioural problem & address it, by whatever means necessary to insure the dog does not pose a threat to humans or other dogs. For example a dog with a predisposition to be fearful of dogs may avoid them. If that did not work because its owner ignored or misinterpreted its body language & took it to doggy play dates because it wasn’t friendly it may progress to a growl. If a growl drove away the threat, it would learn that worked & repeat it. If later a growl did not work it may then progress to an outright bite. If the bite worked, the dog would repeat it.In the above scenario if the owner grabbed her dog by the collar to separate it from another dog, then it may redirect its aggression onto its owner & bite because it was in a heightened state of anxiety or if there was a dog attempting to bite it & the owner failed to protect the fearful dogs physical space, again in a heightened state of anxiety if it could not flee the threat it may redirect its aggression & snap at its owner.A dog can be fearful of dogs & never twitch in the wrong way at a human – it depends on the individual dog’s genetic temperament & how competent the owner is in controlling the dog’s behaviour & managing its environment. In a nutshell fear aggression is fear aggression, but in some dogs it’s manageable, in others it’s not.